The Established Church - Cumberland and Westmorland Newspaper Transcriptions

The Established Church

Mr. Faithful moved the resolutions of which he had given notice, relative to the Church, to the effect that the Established Church is not recommended by practical utility; that its revenues have been always subject to legislative enactments; and the those revenues ought to be appropriated to the relief of the nation. He would ask any man who hear him-he would defy any bishop or dean in the whole establishment to show where an established church was either directly or indirectly, authorised or sanctioned by our Lord Jesus Christ and his apostles? He would refer them to the evidence of their own clergy, to that of Paley, and Warburton, and Blackburn, and others. Was it not a melancholy fact, of which all history was a comment that the union of church and state was baneful to both? When did the Christian religion become a state religion? Why, under that man, stained with every crime, Constatine, whose reign was the date of its decline and corruption. What was Christianity? Di not all admit it to be a religion of good will and kind affections? Could any man deny that the only result of the established church was the very opposite, - that it produced only ill-will and heart burnings, and deadly hatred and animosities? Did they want a proof, let them look to the unfortunate condition of Ireland, with its established church (hear, hear). Where was a compulsory maintenance for the clergy spoken of in the gospel? What act of the apostles sanctioned its adoption? Did not they live by the labour of their hands, and did not they deprecate compulsory and high remuneration as fatal to future religion? The clergy of the Church of England were the invariable abettors of every measure which tended to encroach upon the rights and liberties of the subject; and the invariable foes of every measure calculated to advance the interests of either. Then was not the system monstrously venal and simoniacal? Were not living and cures of souls: advertised for sale, and as open marketable commodities as anything sold in open day? What induced young men to enter the church? Was it the call of the Holy Ghost? Was it not notorious that they entered the church as they would the army and navy, or any other profession as a means of a livelihood? (hear, hear). Then see how the certainty of reward tended to induce habits of indifference and remissness on the part of the clergyman, who, feeling himself secured by the law of his tithes, let his flock take care for themselves. The Dissenting clergy were wholly supported by voluntary contributions- in what respect were they inferior to the clergy supported by compulsion? He then proceeded to argue that the church was as much under the control of the state as any other Corporation, and said he would now come to his last proposition: - "That the greater par, if not the whole of those revenues (those of the church) ought to be appropriated to the relief of the national debt." Up to the time of the Reformation, the clergy were exclusively entitled to only one-third of the tithes, -How, he would ask, came the revenues of church into the hands of Protestants? They came into their hands from the Catholics, from whom they were taken by act of Parliament, consequently they were thus liable to legislative enactment, and ought to be still considered to be so. What did the noble Lord mean to do? Would he sponge out the national debt-would he put down the army- would he put an end to sinecures? The noble Lord would do non of these things, and as long as they were left, it was useless to quarrel with the minister for not reducing taxation. If the noble Lord would appropriate the public property to public purposes, then the national creditor might be paid, the people relieved, and the whole nation rendered prosperous. It would, however, be beyond the ingenuity of man to continue the present system much longer. The Hon. member then moved his resolution.
Mr. Cobbett seconded the motion.
Lord Althorp said that the house would hardly expect that he should answer the speech of the hon. member (loud cheers). He should merely say that, as the hon. member was a Dissenter, and he ( Lord Althorp) was a Churchman, it could be easily understood that on the question whether the church of England was a good church or not they must differ (hear) . There was another point on which they differed. The hon. member said this was a motion of great importance; he differed from him in that (cheers and laughter).
He should, therefore, not detain the house by attempting to enter into a discussion, which, however, it might suit a polemical assembly, was hardly fit for the consideration of that house (cheers).

Mr. Cobbett observed that the noble Lord had said that the house would hardly expect him to answer the speech of the hon. member. He (Mr. Cobbett) did not expect him to answer it either ( laughter).

Mr. D.W. Harvey, as a Dissenter, subscribed to the opinion that the resources of the church were under the dominion of parliament, not only for spiritual, but for temporal purposes, or all the grants of church property made the time of Henry VIII, and Edward VI, to lay persons were unrighteous grants. He trusted the hon. gentleman would not press the house to a division on an abstract proposition, which was open to great objection, and would place the nonconformists in an ungenerous light.

Sir R. Inglis was opposed to every word that had been uttered, and thought it extremely unfair to attack the clergy in that place where non of the body could appear to defend themselves.

Mr. Aglionby said that whatever might be his opinions as to erecting an established church in a new state, he could not agree, in the present state of things in this country, to destroy the established church in England. He thought its property was entirely at the disposal and under the control of the state, to be disposed of for the public good, and if any question of that nature should come before the house, he would then act to the best of his judgment; but he must oppose the present motion.

Mr. O'Dwyer, admist eries of :Withdraw," said that as a Catholic he could not agree to the resolutions, and pressed the following amendment: - " That the revenues of the church of England had been always subject to legislative enactments, and ought to be appropriated to the purposes of their original institution."

Mr. Harvey, as a Protestant dissenter, could not agree to this amendment, - at least the second part of it. The original question was then put; not an "aye" was uttered, and the Speaker said the "noes" had it.
A few voices said "the ayes' have it" (the usual call for a division); but
The Speaker said this was too late, for there was not a single "aye"